Fauci on what working for Trump was really like

WASHINGTON • For almost 40 years, Dr Anthony Fauci, 80, has held two jobs.

As director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, he has run one of America's premier research institutions.

But he has also been an adviser to seven presidents, from Mr Ronald Reagan to, now, Mr Joe Biden, called upon whenever a health crisis looms.

As the coronavirus ravaged the country, Dr Fauci's calm counsel and commitment to hard facts endeared him to millions of Americans. But he also became a villain to millions of others. Supporters of Mr Donald Trump chanted "Fire Fauci", and the then President mused openly about doing so. Dr Fauci's family also received death threats.

In an interview with The New York Times at the weekend, Dr Fauci described the difficulties of working with Mr Trump.

A: It coincided very much with the rapid escalation of cases in the north-eastern part of the country, particularly the New York metropolitan area. I would try to express the gravity of the situation, and the response of the president was always leaning towards, "Well, it's not that bad, right?" And I would say: "Yes, it is that bad."

And the other thing that made me really concerned was, it was clear that he was getting input from people who were calling him up... saying, "Hey, I heard about this drug; isn't it great?" or, "Boy, this convalescent plasma is really phenomenal." And I would try to... explain that you find out if something works by doing an appropriate clinical trial; you get the information, you give it a peer review.

And he'd say, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this stuff really works."

It wasn't just hydroxychloroquine; it was a variety of alternative medicine-type approaches. It was always, "A guy called me up, a friend of mine from blah, blah, blah." That was when my anxiety started to escalate.

A: To be totally honest with you, I don't know. We were having the standard kind of scientifically based, public health-based meetings. Then I started getting anxious that this was not going in the right direction...

We would say things like, "This is an outbreak. Infectious diseases run their own course unless one does something to intervene." And then he would get up and start talking about, "It's going to go away. It's magical; it's going to disappear."

It isn't like I took any pleasure in contradicting the president of the United States. I have a great deal of respect for the office. But I made a decision that I just had to. Otherwise I would be compromising my own integrity and be giving a false message to the world.

That was when I started to get into some trouble. The people around him, his inner circle, were quite upset that I would dare publicly contradict the president. That was when we started getting into things I felt were unfortunate and somewhat nefarious - namely, allowing (Trump aide) Peter Navarro to write an editorial in USA Today saying I'm wrong on most of the things I say.

A: There were a couple of times where I would make a statement that was a pessimistic viewpoint about what direction we were going, and the president would call me up and say, "Why are you so negativistic? Be more positive."

A: No. No.

A: No.

A: Never. Never. Nope.

A: When people just see you standing up there, they sometimes think you're being complicit in the distortions emanating from the stage. But I felt that if I stepped down, that would leave a void. Someone's got to not be afraid to speak out the truth.

A: I can't comment. People always ask that and... making the direct connection that way, it becomes very damning. I just want to stay away from that. Sorry.

NYTIMES