My lunch with Minister of State Sun Xueling starts off with me first sweating buckets, then almost choking, and there's some crying in the middle too.

It's a very humid afternoon at the Kopitiam outlet in Sumang Lane in Punggol. As we settle into our chairs and I take off my mask, I can feel fat beads of sweat dripping from my upper lip. "You want some tissue?" she asks gently, and passes me her packet of tissue paper which she fishes out from her cotton tote bag. I take one gratefully.